Rice's Devils??

Shawn -

Too funny!!! And eerie to see some of my old stomping grounds with Rice's name on the equipment. Is Wheeler still active? I used to run an ice cream truck through the neighborhood way back in the 70s.

Andy

Wheeler is still active, that's where the 25th ID's Aviation Brigade is.

Hmm now there's a lawn ornament that the neighbors would only complain about ONCE.  Of course the only problem is that it would take up my entire lawn.... but then... much less lawn to mow.... hmm now where can I find one for sale?

Tim

What model Sherman is that?  I dont recognize the road wheel design?  Is it of the M4A3E8 variants?

Pretty sure it's a Korean War E8, next time I am up there I'll look at the data plate. 

Tim, since you asked....
http://www.jeepcity.co.uk/id2.html

Don't you know how to google? hehehe.

Pete says it's probably from Korea and is definitely an M4A3E8. Kinda reminds me of the Stuart Honey! Now that was a fun little piece of equipment. I've had a love for the beastie ever since reading Brazen Chariots.

Andy

Yes Shawn, I know how to google, sometimes its better not to know what temptations are there....

The Sherman is a M4A3E8 with the HVSS (Horizontal Volute-Spring Suspension), a limited number did reach the ETO in December of 1944.  This is the model that was referred to as the "Easy Eight." It has the same gun as the M18 Hellcat TD, 76mm High Velocity.  Really a very good gun, equal to the Pak 40, or the 75mmL48 in the later Panzer IV's (H & J) and nearly as good as the Soviet 85mm guns in the later T-34 variants. 

However I would not be surprised if Shawn does indeed find that its a Korean War era tank, as most of the Shermans in Korea were the 'Easy Eights' or some of the other later M4 Sherman variants.

Hmmm check this out:

http://www.armyjeeps.net/armor1.htm

halfway down, one of the Omaha Beach DD Shermans,  ONLY $595,000 dollars, plus shipping, and probably the same amount of restoration...

or at the bottom of this page:  http://www.armyjeeps.net/vehicle1.htm
the 105mm M2 howitzer.  Another nice lawn ornament.

Tim

Wow, I already invest way too much money in WWII combat rifles and sidearms. The last thing I need is to start looking at original vehicles..... If I only had a spare $265,000 I'd have a stuart in the garage though. The halftrack is pretty awesome too, and a steal at only $55,000. Thanks for posting the link Tim, I love that sort of stuff. -Mark

Yep, $265,000 for a tank makes $15,000 for a working B.A.R. sound pretty reasonable.

Tim

Is that a 76mm or a 90mm gun on the Sherman?  It looks big for a 76mm but maybe thats just the angle of the photo or something.

76mm Gun.  something like 40 calibers long.  The Sherman never got a 90mm gun in American service.  The only vehicles in WW2 that got 90mm gun was the M-36 Jackson and M-36 B1 Jackson Tank Destroyers.

Actually I recently saw a photo of a pershing equpped with a 90mm. Apparently there was only one and it was attached to the 3rd armored division in 1945. -Mark

Yep thats true, didn't think of the Pershing because so few of them made it to Europe.  Several dozem maybe?  I would have to look that up, but they too had the 90mm guns.

Tim

That was the T26E4 in Zaloga's "Armored Thunderbolt" it was a pilot armed with a T15 90mm gun and known as the Super Pershing. He has it at 105 in ETO by wars end. Pershing's that is the T24E4 was one of a kind.

Wayne

So I looked it up.  The first Pershings made it to Europe in Jan 1945; armed with the 90mm gun.  Eventually these early models were made standard as the M26 Pershing, 310 of them were in Europe before the war ended.   This according to Hogg's Encyclopedia of Armored Vehicles.

I think the 300 number a bit high, but its possible if units were refit even after the armistice.  I have heard that the western allied powers were scared crapless when they say the IS-2 and IS-3's in immediate postwar period.  Dunno if that is really true, but I can imagine that seeing the IS2 would be enough to make them want to have the best things we had available over there too.

However, the tank Shawn photo'd at the top of the thread here is a  M4A3E8 -- 76mm gun.

Tim

Didnt someone say it was a Korean War Sherman?  Were any of them up gunned to 90mm?

Bill,

According to the information I have, none of the Shermans were upgunned to 90mm for regular US service.  For Korea the 90's were in the Pershings (M-26) and the "Pattons" (M-26's with a better engine and transmission).  I had heard, though, that the Shermans were prefered in Korea because they were easier to handle.  The main opposition in Korea was the T34/85, SU 76, and lots of infantry.  So I don't think there was a pressing need to get lots of 90's.   The Israelis upgunned some Shermans to the 105mm gun.  I bet that really shook the vehicle when fired!!

WW2 Pershings were introduced in late February, 45, with the 3rd and 9th ADs.  The 2nd, 5th and 22th ADs also received Pershings before war's end.  310 were in Europe by wars end....all in western Europe and none in Italy. 

Ken 

Hi Ken,

Missed this one earlier.  The Israeli's put a 105 in them!  Wow.  I wonder how long they stood up to that kind of abuse?

Bill

Yeah, I have heard it called the  "I-Sherman" (ahead of their time, maybe thats where Steve Job's got the idea?  Nah....) It was the E8 version so far as I know, but I think I read somewhere that they had to modify the back end of the turret to make adequate room for the Gun, Crew, and Ammo.... but I am not sure.

Tim