I was kinda hoping it may be another Session of Trafalgar. The old lady gave me her debit card to order myself a birthday present so I have six British ships on the way. Also while I'm on the subject. What am I looking at for base dimensions and what would you recomend I use for basing. I'd really like to use something I can get at the hardware store so I dont have to wait for a modeling company half way across the country to send me some high end plastic or wood. I believe John has put in an order for his French ships so once again Wayne you've created a monster. I'd love to try the Black Powder rules as well though, I just know John is really pumped about Trafalger. Either way, I'll see you tuesday. -Mark

Mark

The basing convention is not important a basic rectangle will work. I recommend 40mm x 65mm for Frigates, 40mm x 75mm for 4th & 3rd rates and 40mm x 85mm for 1st & 2nd rate ships. The size is more important in protecting the mini than game play.

Note: I will not be held responsible for the gamers ADD of others

The ship is a 1/1200 GHQ

Whoa. Beautiful.

Several years ago I sold off all my 1/2400 Valiant stuff. Lack of time to use them.

Mike

Yeah, Wayne brought in The Constitution for us to drool over this week and as expected we were all imediately hooked. We decided that Big John will be doing the French, Eric will be painting(or at least collecting) the Spanish, and I will be painting the British for our latest craze at Crossroads. I'm not sure what Waynes preference is but I'm sure he'll accumulate a sizable fleet from each nation as that seems to be the trend. Now if we can just find the time to paint all of the shiny new toys we'll be playing in another new time frame. At least it will be new to the Crossroads group. As I have mentioned before, we play every tuesday at 6pm, and all are welcome. It looks like we will be playing 10mm ACW this week using the Black Powder rule system. If there is anyone in the area who would like to jump in we would love to have you. Hopefully we'll see you all soon. -Mark

So all of you are building 1/1200 scale ships?  Will all of you be doing rigging as well?  It's madness I tell you!  What rules will you be using? 

Ken

We will be doing rigging. How much rigging is yet to be seen, but the models do tend to look like crap without at least a minimal amount. We are using the Trafalgar system which I believe is put out by Warhammer historicals(or something like that, It's a company that was formerly connected to games workshop I believe.) We did a prliminary test last tuesday to get a feel for the rules, but unfortunately I had to leave early so I didn't get very familiar with them. However from speaking with John about the AAR it is a REALLY great system. I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with Waynes painting and modeling but it is truly mind boggling the detail that he adds to his miniatures. The Pictures he posted of the Constitution really don't do it justice. Just looking at the work he did with the rigging gives me a headache. However he has set the standard so we are going to have to strive for similar detail or beg him to do the rigging for us. I remember playing a napoleonic naval game many, many years ago at The Toy Soldier but I cant remember what the rule system was that we used as I was maybe ten or twelve years old at the time. Does anyone remember? Was it house rules? I remember Wooden Ships and Iron Men but the game I'm thinking of wasn't played on a hex map. I'm sure we will continue with the Trafalger rules, I'm just curious if anyone has any input about other systems that are or were out there. -Mark

P.S. Can anyone recomend a shade of yellow for use on the British ships of the line?

Sure rigging is easy ( maniacal laugh). Honestly with the right tools its not to bad. I think I spent more time painting and basing than the rigging. The guys have requested a show and tell so one of these days we will have a training session at Crossroads. I draw the line at, well rat lines tho. Looking into some photo etch sets.

Hey Mark I've got some Vallejo Plauge brown that looks right. Check this site Painting Napoleonic ships
As for rules right now its Warhammer Historical Trafalgar. There are more complete, accurate rules out their Trafalgar fits into our week night club game in fact this one got some good looks from our non historical friends we may hook a few recruits.

Wayne

Vallejo Plauge brown? Does he have a bottle at Crossroads I wonder? The paint selection has been lacking lately I've noticed.

There will be a GW cross for it although the more I look at it the more I think Golden Yellow might be the way to go. When I get to finishing HMS Guerriere I'll have a better idea.

Wayne

Wayne,

What size and type of thread did you use for your rigging?  I have a few GHQ ships that I may give a go to painting and rigging. 
Ken

AAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Yet another time and scale that I want to own and play.  Really, Really nice job on that ship.  Napoleonic shipd was one of the first miniatures we got into at MMA when we started a gaming club as part of the S.H.I.P.S. Club.  Ours looked like blobs of lead compared to your Constitution.

I dont suppose I could entice (bribe, cajole, whatever it takes) you to come to NOR-CON and put on a game with them could I??  Oh yeah I almost forgot, beg!

Bill

Hi Ken its a single strand Polyester very fine and dam fiddly. Its got a natural curve and spring to it. I've since picked up a spool of rigging thread at 6/0 from Ray and Robbins its nearly as small but a traditional thread I'll let you know if its any better.

Wayne

Bill

Alas I've only the Constitution finished and the Guerriere on blocks at this time. NOR-CON is June right? I have a infestation of Nervii on the painting table right now but by June who knows might be able to pull that off.

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Yes it is June 5th and even a small game would be great.  I love sailing ships and those are the best I have ever seen.

Bill

Mark;
Can't speak to rules that far back.  They might have been house, or DGUTS, or ISWM, or any number of mods of any combination of those. 

When we can twist Bruce Zimmerman's arm sufficiently we use a home grown set.  Its a long evolution, hack of many rules systems, even uses a movement table system from Fire & Fury, or at least that sort of structure.

For our ships, I'll see if I can find some good photos. we use .015" Steel wire.  Particularly for the main shrouds and stays, as they really toughen up the ships.  I saw two ships go off the shelf and fall a little more than two feet.  They lost a lot of the rigging, but the masts were fine.   On the other hand I have heard that similar ships fell off the back of a car onto pavement and took catastrophic damage.   

However I rigged several with the wire and found it easy to work with.  The biggest issue is a matter of estimating length and skinny fingers or a really long set of forceps.

I'll see what I have for pics.

Tim

Okay couldn't find the photos of the ships with the heavy wire -  Here are some of Bruce Z's:  he used unbraided copper electrical wire I think, and the 'Monkey lines' are some kind of polyester ?? mesh.  As you can see in the last photo, get enough of them together and they look great.  You guys should have fun.

The bases are hotel key cards.  Good size around the ships.  Keep the fingers off the minis as much as possible.    There are at least nine ships in the photo above, and there are another ten or so in a line opposite. right of the frame.    You guys should have some great fun if you don't go crazy with the ships.

TIm

hmm .015" steel wire? Any idea where I might purchase such a thing? I can imagine It is MUCH easier to work with than thread plus as you said the increased durability is a definite bonus. I'm just wondering if that is something I can buy at the hardware store?

yep thats where I get mine.  Local ACE Hardware.  Fairly inexpensive, actually really inexpensive.... the biggest thing is estimating the spans you need, depending on how much of the rigging you put on.  Work from the inside of the rigging outward, and be careful about how much you decide to put on... you can go crazy.

By as much of the wire as you can carry home, and get a good pair of wire snips or linesman's pliers.  I find that its better to put a couple of drops of Super glue on a scrap piece of plastic and dip the ends of the piece of wire I am gluing into that, then quickly transfer it to its final location.  Works pretty well.

Tim

"We are using the Trafalgar system which I believe is put out by Warhammer historicals(or something like that, It's a company that was formerly connected to games workshop I believe.) "

Still part of GW, just moved within the company to be under Forge World a year ago.  Big mistake.

http://www.warhammer-historical.com/acatalog/Trafalgar.html

Not a set of rules I would choose.

If you liked "Wooden Ships and Iron Men", try "Heart of Oak".  Originally published by FGU, it's still available from Scott Bizar, who owned the company:

http://www.fantasygamesunlimited.net/shop/?cart=92253&cat=1&itemid=62

Or downloadable (cheap right now):

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=736

Those are probably the best rules available if sailing matters to you.  I would think that folks form Maine would consider that an important part of any Age of Sail rules.

If you can find it, "Ship o' the Line" was the miniatures version (more complex) of "WSaIM":

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7782/ship-o-the-line

Allen